Revit 2013/AutoCAD MEP 2013 IFC Improvements

This post is part of an AU class this year, MP1465, Supercharge Your AutoCAD® MEP 2013. It came up as we started working with outside vendors that are solid AutoCAD MEP users, but not Revit users - and that's what we're using.

First up, know the rules:
- Architecture and Structure items convert pretty nicely, with ACAD Arch walls converting to Revit walls. You may need to swap some styles, check justifications, etc. but getting the overall model works pretty well.
- MEP objects come into Revit from ACAD MEP as in-place families, but if you setup your import options, and have your classification definitions assigned to MEP objects in ACAD MEP, then they come in as "pipes, pipe fittings, duct, etc.". Be aware - they don't have the same behavior as a duct, pipe, etc. that was created with native Revit tools. But you can add connectors as needed to make these types of connections.

Here's the excerpt from the class (or as I like to call it, the "tease")...

IFC stands for Industry Foundation Class, and it’s a file format that is universally shared between CAD platforms. The intent is that an object in a program like AutoCAD MEP can be converted into the same type of object in Revit, or other BIM applications.

In order for an object to be exported to IFC, it has to have an object classification assigned. To look at the default styles go to ProgramData\Autodesk\MEP 2013\enu\Styles directory and open the IfcShareBldgElements (MEP).dwg file.

 

In the style manager, look at the classification definitions under Multi-purpose objects. IFC properties can be assigned to these objects:

 



Once the items are selected, the classifications tab lists the information associated with an MEP object that will be exported:

 

To use these in a file, and assign them to MEP objects, you have to copy them into your current drawing. Use copy and paste in the style manager to add both classification definitions to the current drawing.

Select OK to exit the style manager. Now that they’re in the drawing, you can edit the properties of objects to assign the classification. I’ll grab the ductwork, and then go to the properties palette:

For most other parts, IFC Type Classifications are mapped to MvPart Objects (such as equipment, panels, and devices) automatically. This classification is added in the Autodesk Catalog Editor by default. You can modify this classification or add more classifications to the content library in the Autodesk Catalog Editor.

Once you’ve added the correct classifications to MEP objects, review the IFC export settings. From the application menu, select the Export tool, and then select IFC. The options are located on the export dialog, and the object tab lists all objects that loaded into a drawing – you can choose to add or remove objects as needed.

After you review the options, you can run the export. The IFC file is created in the project folder. To test this, I’m going to open the file in Revit. Before doing this, open the IFC Import options on the Application menu, under Open:

Before importing an IFC file, you need to go through and map IFC class names to Categories and sub-categories. This tells the MEP object what is used to control its display in Revit.

Once the IFC file is imported, it will appear something like this:

The imported objects take on most of the characteristics of the equivalent objects in Revit. You may need to check IFC mappings in both the AutoCAD MEP file and the Revit file during this process, but this represents a major leap in compatibility between the applications.

Be aware that imported objects may not completely take on the behavior of a normal duct. For example, the duct is treat like a duct with properties assigned, but it does not include the connection, system or sizing behavior. You have to add a connector to attach duct to it.

I don’t care what anybody says…this is really cool…

Happy BIM'ing - see you in Vegas!

zzzz....uh...huh? AU is in a week? Geez, I overslept..

Wow, where does the time go? Autodesk University (#au2012) starts classes one week from today...and the last couple of months have been crazy, getting all of the handouts, datasets, powerpoints, props, home movies, etc. finished. But I'm about there...

And when you finally get a moment to reflect, you hope you've put something together that really hits home with users. This year's approach was a little different - I wanted to find what the really obscure little things were that come up as support issues, and get them addressed. But I also needed to hit on the bigger picture, and make sure that the day to day items - using systems, making families quickly from scratch, or from manufacturer's content, etc.

And then I an email from an engineer I know, saying that he doesn't think MEP BIM is ready for primetime yet. And I couldn't disagree more, but if you don't train your staff for a few years, then, yeah - you're likely to have the same attitude. So here's what I think - Revit MEP 2013 and AutoCAD MEP 2013 represent the best two MEP design applications on the market, hands down. Both have their strengths, but both require you to make some changes to your design process.

Here's an example. In one of my classes, we talk about adding an instrument connection to a duct or pipe. The instinct says, add a tap. Instead, if we're making this connection at a fitting, such as a duct tee or flowmeter, why not add the physical connection to that component? It will stay connected to the part, if the part moves or changes size, the connection is still there. It can be fabricated into the part prior to being added in the field, so that may save a little "field fit and finish" time.

That's one of the challenges that comes with BIM. If you're still in the drafting mentality, then all you're thinking about is a line or circle - but in BIM, you HAVE to think more from a DESIGN standpoint. It's all about making a more easily constructable building, that's more sustainable while allowing for creativity in the design.

The beauty of AU is that it's a gathering of like minds, that are looking for that tip, or method, that helps you stay current with technology, or gain that competitive advantage. We're driven to find better ways to leverage our tools, and make life easier for ourselves (as though it isn't already). And we really want to find ways to interconnect all of this information, and come up with the big picture, that satisfies the client's and end users needs (think airport electrical outlets).

So take a little time this week - network with your peers, get to know some of the industry leaders, and take advantage of some of the best and most passionate instructors in the world. We'll all be hanging out in the same place - so come by, say hello, and let's talk about the future. And if you can't make it, check our AU Virtual - last year, tens of thousands did - so the learning doesn't stop on November 30th. I'm ready - are you?

See you in Vegas!

'Peat and Repeat....Additional Revit Labs coming soon for AU 2012

Looks like my two Revit MEP labs will be repeated, due to demand. If you tried to get into either one of these sessions, but couldn't, check back this week. I've approved them being added, and are just working on the details for the time and location with the AU event staff...so stay tuned!

Class ID: MP1477-L  - REPEAT is MP6895-L!
Class Title: FASTER Families for Revit MEP!
Class Type: Hands-on Lab - Wednesday 1:00p

Class ID: MP1478-L - REPEAT is MP6889-L
Class Title: Perfecting the System for the Revit MEP Project
Class Type: Hands-on Lab - Tuesday 10:30am

Anybody got a throat lozenge I can borrow....?

thanks - David B.

Revit MEP Circuiting tips...poles or phase?

Ran into this one recently...we have a project with a new user that is adding devices to circuits. In the project she's working on, we have number of poles and voltage assigned as a parameter, but somewhere along the line added a phase parameter that was also equal to the number of poles...which, if you're the electrical designer, you know is wrong.

So here's my simple explanation, with a little help and clarification from my buddy Dan Stine...the Number of Poles in a circuit relate to the physical slot locations on a panel. The Phase refers to the A/B/C branches of a panel. Phase is a product of typical AC (or alternating current). Without going into great detail, know that Revit support single phase (panels with A/B branches, just like your house) or 3 phase (A/B/C - most commercial applications).

With electrical connections, you'll have these types of connections:

120/240 - these are single phase panels, with two poles - most commonly found in residential
120/208 - a three phase panel, more common in commercial applications. This type of panel also requires 4 wires to use all three slot sizes, from 1-3. In some cases, a 120/208 single phase connection can also be used - for example, in a apartment building.

120V is common in the US, but not common in other areas, such as Europe.

120V - A single phase, single pole Circuit - unless it's a GFI circuit, which could be single pole but 2 phase
208V/240V -  typically a 2 pole, 1 phase circuit, but also could be three phase (for example, in the event of a 208V GFI Circuit). 208 volt or 240 volt systems can both be either single phase 2 pole, or 3 phase 3 pole circuits.

Higher voltage panels for commercial and industrial applications are typically 277/480, indicating a one to three pole circuits. 277 volt circuits are almost always single phase, single pole, while most 460-480 volt circuits are 3 phase circuits. Depending on the power requirements, you can have 480 volt, single phase, 2 pole circuits - so make sure you check for this when specifyign your equipment.


In my simple little, non-electrical mind, it's a bit confusing, but from Revit, it's pretty straight forward.

If something is 120v, set the number of poles to 1. This will take up one slot in the panel, or one "circuit"

If something is 277v, set the number of poles to 1. The phase will also be set to one. For 208v/240v circuits, these can be single phase 2 pole, or three phase, 3 pole.

For 480V, in most cases, the number of poles will be 3. a 3 pole circuit takes up three slots, and can only be used in a panel that is defined as a 3 or 4 wire, 3 phase panel. You can have some systems, such as electric heat, use a 480v single phase, 1 pole circuit - again, check with your vendor before defining the circuit.

These are all set under electrical settings, for the distribution systems:

Revit requires that the proper combination of poles and voltage in order to add something to a circuit. There are two configurations for any type of a three phase panel - Delta, which doesn't include a neutral branch, and Wye, which does include a neutral.

Revit only recognizes single or three phase systems when you define your distribution system. For example, you might have a device or circuit, that requires 208v service but is single phase - you still have to assign the number of poles to 2. Otherwise, it can't be connected to a panel.

For more information, talk to a more reliable source than me - your local electrical engineer.

Hope this helps - if anyone wants to add to the conversation, knock yourself out!

thanks - David B.

A few shameless plugs...for AU 2012!

I gotta love our marketing people...they've really been grabbing on to social media and getting ourselves known for being thought leaders in the BIM arena.

So they put together a little highlight reel for the classes I'm teaching at AU this year, showing a few of the projects we've worked on in Revit, along with a few pics from previous classes...check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNBJzEG0ThM

Here's the list of classes I'm doing this year - in case you missed it:

 

Class ID: MP1414
Class Title: Revit MEP 2013 - On Steroids!
Wednesday - 10:00am

Class ID: MP1461
Class Title: You did WHAT? Revit MEP and AutoCAD P&ID? Amazing!
Thursday 1:00pm

PS - for the class above, I'm really excited about this one - we're doing stuff that everybody says we shouldn't be doing - but it's not just about the programming. It's about how we went through the decision and planning process, to come up with a solution that was cost effective for the company while giving us a competitive advantage in our market.

 

Class ID: MP1465-L
Class Title: Fast Content for AutoCAD MEP 2013
Tuesday - 5:30pm 

Class ID: MP1470
Class Title: Supercharge your AutoCAD MEP 2013!
Thursday - 10:00am

Class ID: MP1477-L
Class Title: FASTER Families for Revit MEP!
Thursday - 5:00pm 

Class ID: MP1478-L
Class Title: Perfecting the System for the Revit MEP Project
Wednesday - 8:00am


And you thought I was a geek...see you in Vegas!

later - David B.

Fixing Acute Angle Pipe Deflection and other Piping Errors in Revit MEP

This tip comes straight from the top, from my buddy Dave Pothier...even though he's management now, he's still a geek at heart - gotta love it...

We had a recurring couple of problems with fittings we had defined for Ductile Iron pipe. When Autodesk brought their new versions out a short while ago for the AWWA standards, we were still having some issues, so we had a chat with Dave about it.

Problem 1 - some fittings at angles like 45 degrees could not be created, and we kept getting a "line too short" error - even though you could set the angle in the family, and it would work fine. As it turns out, my techs were modeling an existing plant on a project. To keep from getting crazy plant dimensions, they did what any good CAD tech would do - they set the units to 1/2" and 1".

Then we sailed in trying to place fittings that were accurate down to 1/16" - so when these fittings would try to fit under the higher scale, they couldn't be placed. We changed the project units down to 1/32" and everything works again. Go figure...

Problem 2 - this one was a doozy, and we had a lot of back and forth about it. When we finally did a web session with Autodesk, we were explaining how mechanical joint pipe connections have to be able to flex up to 5 degrees (2.5 each way) around a fitting, since all of this work is buried underground (and gasp, dirt does move). We also had ongoing problems where we could get pipe to deflect at angles great than 90 degrees (since the fitting angles were all between 0-90) but not at acute angles (when the deflection needed to occur, since these fittings don't exist as standard). Their fittings weren't doing deflecting, but then Dave noticed how we had the pipe connector set on the fitting. Here's part of his response:

"...Select the (pipe) connectors and temporarily change the system classification from “Fitting” to “Global”

Once you do that, you can turn On the Allow Slope Adjustments check box. After turning it on, set the System Classification back to Fitting. Do that for both connectors.

Now the fitting should allow the pipe to deflect without the fitting’s angle adjusting. I’m not sure how great of an angle you can have but it should work for what you are doing. Let me know if this works for you."

Now we when make the connection, we get piping deflecting the right way:

Sometimes it's just the simplest things - but thanks again to Autodesk for helping us out, and really get the most from this great package! I'll make sure we get this into the Revit MEP lab I'm teaching at AU, so you can see how do fix this first hand.

Have a great evening! David B.

 

AutoCAD P&ID - A couple of quick tips...

We're going whole-hog (for those folks not from the South, this means that we are ardently pursuing a course of action - it just takes a lot less typing to say it) into AutoCAD P&ID, and really gaining the benefits over the old-school lisp and vanilla AutoCAD methods we used before.

But like any other Autodesk application, you've got to follow some rules. Here's a couple of tips that will help with some of the errors.

Off-page connectors - Autodesk released a fix for these not too long ago, but there's a better way to screw this up. If your pipe line segments between the connected drawings are not the same type - for example, you used the Primary Line Segment in one drawing, and then used Secondary Line Segment in the other drawing, where you wanted to make a connection - you won't get the tag properly labeled. We did this with several lines, just not paying attention. Off page connectors require the same line segment type to properly connect, so check this in both drawings before you implode.

The other good one relates to Validation. We've been using the Validate tools on P&ID objects, but we also place all of our geometry in paper space - since we're not working at scale. If you configure the Validate tools to check for Base AutoCAD objects, you might not get anything to show up as an error - even if you've added all kinds of cheatin' shortcuts.

The Base AutoCAD Objects check only looks at model space - so if you are importing old P&ID's to convert to intelligent objects, do your work in Model space, and then check. You'll find all of your random linework and be able to edit them right out of your shiny new diagram.

I've got more, but fixing all this has made me tired...time for a nap...

Later - David B.